WARNING!

IOPNA's conversation with a skeptic about the Rapture continues…

Now, this ‘Wrath’ business - you haven’t explained why Paul told the Thessalonians about Jesus being the “deliverer from the coming wrath” (1:10) – that’s talking about hell isn’t it?

Look, this is going to be a bit heavy-going so we’ll keep it brief and perhaps come back to it another time in a study of the Revelation.  To understand what’s around the corner we have to realize that God has not finished with the Jews – if we say He has, we make Him a liar who fails to keep His unconditional promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  Hebrews 6:13-, Jeremiah 31:35-37 We also tend to forget that the Holy Bible is a Jewish book, written by Jews (Romans 3:2), about the Jewish Messiah (Luke 24:44), and often hijacked by Christians who pretend that everything applies to them just because there were some letters written to them.

When people claim that the Christian Church has replaced Israel they ignore Paul recognising three groups: Jews, Greeks (Gentiles) and the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32) and his teaching in Romans 9 thru 11; instead they claim the Church is ‘Spiritual Israel’ which is not even in the Bible, then twist Jewish prophecy to suit.                                                                           

Ignoring what people say, events in history are the proof: the re-establishment of Israel, declared as a state on 14 May 1948, commenced a fulfilling of prophecy in our lifetime, seen in televised news! 

Whatever we might say, the making of history has the last word!

Okay, fair enough but let’s not complicate things.                                                                   

34 kg hailstones?? (Revelation 16:21)

I don’t know of anywhere in the Bible where it connects God’s wrath with hell. If we look at what will finally happen at God’s Great White Throne in Revelation 20:11-15 we notice there is no mention of wrath in casting the unsaved into the lake of fire. 
Anybody who has carefully read the Old Testament Jewish prophecies will see that repeatedly there is the ‘Day of Jehovah’ or ‘Day of the Lord’ spoken of (starting with Isaiah 2:12), elements of which were only partially experienced by Israel in history - we haven’t seen the real deal yet. 
To remove all doubt, Jesus said in Matthew 24:21-22 about that future period “…such as has not been since the beginning of the world, until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved…” In fact this 7 year tribulation on Earth has more prophecy devoted to it than any other period of time in all of history. It looks like it might be just around the corner but people don’t want to consider it literally because the horror is unimaginable. Despite what the Bible clearly says, they argue: how could a loving God allow such terror? How could there be such ‘wrath of the Lamb’ seen in Revelation 6?   

So you’re saying that believers in Jesus Christ will not see the wrath of that tribulation?

Never mind me, the apostle Paul spelled it out it in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11, including: 

“…for God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ….”, plus… “
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.” Romans 5:9                                                                      

And not only Paul but Jesus Christ said it thru John in Revelation: "...I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth."  Revelation 3:10, after having said:  

“Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”  Luke 21:36

In fact, if you study this 7 year period of tribulation you will see from Daniel 9:24, 10:14, 12:1, Jeremiah 30:7, Matthew 24:21, and Mark 13:19 that the main focus will be Israel, although the whole habitable world will experience intense trial.  Luke 21:20-26             Revelation 3:10          Romans 1:18 – 2:11    John 3:36

The long and the short of it is that Paul clearly spells it out, especially in Romans 2 and 1 Thessalonians 5, that God is going to put the screws on this world and today’s believers in the Lord Jesus Christ will not be here to see it.

But doesn’t it say somewhere: ‘He who endures to the end shall be saved’?

Yes that’s in Matthew 24 which we’ll have a look at next time. In the meantime, if you read the context of verse 13 you will see Jesus is talking about physically surviving deception, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, tribulation, execution, hatred, betrayal, lawlessness….; He continued: “And these glad tidings of the kingdom…” - we are not subjects of the King but will reign with the King.           2 Timothy 2:12     Revelation 5:10; 20:4; 22:5

What is a Christian saved by?   

 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9 
Survival is not the same as the gift of faith by grace.                                                        

NEXT:     When? When When?

Click on: http://hotspuds.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/when-when-when.html

JESUS CHRIST IS COMING!

IOPNA's conversation with a skeptic about the 'Rapture' continues...

Can we believe all this Rapture business? Did Jesus actually promise to come back for His believers?

Sure He did. After celebrating the Passover for the last time with His disciples and only minutes before He was arrested, Jesus said: “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In my Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you and if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.” John 14:1-3

It is just like a typical Jewish betrothal where the prospective groom takes leave of his fiancee to go home to his father’s house and build extra living quarters for he and his bride who he will soon return for. In the meantime she eagerly looks for his return, telling everybody about her betrothal while preparing herself for the wedding day.

Well that’s clear enough, but wasn’t that said to His Jewish disciples?... what about others?

Just before He stepped out the door, Jesus prayed to the Father: “I do not pray (erotao: demand!) for these alone but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;” (17:20) That includes me and hopefully you.

Did He say when He would return?

No, He said: “But of that day and hour no-one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.” (Matthew 24:36), although He did give some clues earlier, in that chapter and Mark 13, of how things will ramp up towards the end.

 

So much for those who predict the date – only to be proved wrong!

Did the early Christians expect Jesus Christ to come back for them in their lifetime?

Sure they did!...and they were told to be ready. Luke 12:40

At least the disciple John was expected to see Christ return in his lifetime (John 21:23) and he expected it: 1 John 2:28. The apostle Paul certainly expected Christ’s return:
1 Corinthians 1:7, 15:51-52, 16:22 Philippians 3:20-21 Titus 2:13

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18. The Thessalonians expected it: 1 Thessalonians 1:10
The Lord’s brother James expected it: James 5:8, and Peter did too: 2 Peter 3:9-14.

Well, this all started by looking at what Paul wrote in this letter to the Thessalonians. 

Why do we have to take notice of what Paul says?

 

The Lord Jesus said to Ananias about Saul, later called Paul: “…for he is a chosen vessel of mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings and the children of Israel…” Acts 9:15
Then Ananias told Saul: “The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth; for you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. (Acts 22:14-15) The apostle Peter recognised Paul’s writings to have the same authority as Old Testament scripture in 2 Peter 3:15-16.

So did Paul have any more to say about the Rapture?

Yes he wrote to the Corinthians from Ephesus:“Behold, I tell you a mystery: we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed – in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality…Death is swallowed up in victory.”

1 Corinthians 15:51-54

By the way, ‘Mystery’ comes from musterion: ‘a secret only revealed to those initiated’.

Ah, so this ‘Rapture’ thingummy will be real quick – blink and you’ve missed it! Wow!

NEXT TIME: WARNING.
                       What about this ‘wrath’ business that you haven’t explained?  
                       Don’t Christians have to ‘endure to the end to be saved’?
                             
               Click on:http://hotspuds.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/warning.html        

Image credit: Tim-Shey.blogspot.com

WOW!!

IOPNA's conversation with a skeptic about the 'Rapture' continues:

Righto….what else can you tell me about this ‘Rapture’ business from Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians?... I think it was chapter 4.

You will see that Paul first of all reminds them about honour – of God, of our brother or sister, and of our own bodies. (vv1-12) 

Now see how he goes on to reassure them that they not grieve over their dearly departed, like people around them without hope – how does he do this?

Just as you believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead (based on reliable witness in 1 Corinthians 15) so also believe that God will see to it that the deceased believers will come back with Him when He returns. (vv13-14)

Hey?? You’ve got some explaining to do mister.

Let’s leave that for Paul to do because he now repeats what the Lord Jesus Christ told him (v15):

Gone!

Those who are alive when He comes for His saints will not get the jump (phthano: anticipate, precede) on those deceased by getting there first to meet their Lord. He will personally come from heaven and call them all with the shout of an archangel and with a trumpet blast from God, then the dead in Christ will rise and be joined in the clouds by those already living to meet the Lord in the air. From then on the saints will always be with their Lord. (vv16-18)

Do you mean to say that everybody who believed on Jesus Christ, then died, will be raised instantly?...some were possibly vapourised at Hiroshima/Nagasaki, many fragmented on battlefields or cremated, thousands drowned or buried at sea – that’s physically impossible!!
They’re now fertilizer on the fields or mud on the sea floor!

Well that depends on whether you and I believe the first 5 words of the Bible: “In the beginning God created…” (Genesis 1:1).

If the almighty eternal God was there in the beginning to create everything from nothing, by His word (Hebrews 11:3), then He has the power to raise Jesus from the dead, along with anybody else: whether dust or ashes.

WOW!! That would make for the most supernatural miracle in all of history!...and what’s the word?...decisive. It sounds like you will be taken or be left behind, all depending on whether you believed on Jesus Christ!

Did you say they all meet Jesus in the air, not on Earth?

That’s right. We have now been told that what happened to Jesus, in breaking the power of death, will happen to His saints who have died: they will be raised from among the dead (leaving others behind), they will ascend into the clouds (with the living) to meet Jesus (privately) in the air. Later they will all return to Earth with Him, when every eye will see Him. (Revelation 1:7)

Is that mentioned anywhere else – this returning to Earth with Jesus Christ?

Sure it is!                                                                     

Colossians 3:4 Jude 14-15 Zechariah 14:5 Matthew 24:31

Let me ask you something now:

If you were a king marshalling your army to deal with a rebellious colony, wouldn’t you firstly call out ALL of your loyal subjects to a secret rendezvous before you laid siege so that they would not die in the conflict but ALL live to enjoy your victorious entry with you?

NEXT: 'He's coming!'
            Did Jesus actually say He is going to come back for believers?
Click on: http://hotspuds.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/hes-coming.html

Photo credits: burial at sea / thesun.co.uk

OUR ONLY HOPE

IOPNA's conversation with a skeptic about the 'Rapture' continues...

Last time you showed me where the Rapture was mentioned in some ancient Bible and promised to tell me why Paul wrote to the Thessalonians.

Sure but before we do, can I tell you about two funerals last week -

The 86 year old was once a successful businessman who revolutionised diamond drilling in time for the new Parliament House in Canberra, and the Hong Kong harbour tunnel. A good bloke, they all said, into racehorses, betting, football, fishing, drinking …and the joke was his big hope had been to see South Sydney win a rugby premiership.



Photo credit: zimbio.com

What was the 76 year old grandmother's assurance of hope?

"Everlasting peace, together with the Lord."

One funeral was about the achievements and hopes of the past, but the other was looking to the future in hope.

Mmm, I guess past hope aint really hope!

So let's have a look at the background in 'Acts' for Paul’s letter.

Nearly 20 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the apostle has set out on his second missionary journey and crossed the Aegean Sea to Europe for the first time (16:9-) to spend at least a fortnight in Thessalonica, Macedonia (17:1-10). Many are converted at hearing him preach but he has to take off at night, ending up in Corinth for 18 months (18:1-18). The letter (ch 3) shows young Timotheus has arrived to report to Paul that the Thessalonians were still hopefully expecting Jesus Christ to come back for them but now he wants to reassure them that those believers who had recently died weren’t going to miss out.

So they expected Jesus Christ to return in their lifetime, for them…and so what does this bit about the Rapture actually say?

We’ll have to leave chapter 4 until next time but first, let me tell you about the rest of the letter because many readers miss some vital points; EVERY chapter refers to the return of Jesus Christ:

1:10 “…wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the WRATH to come.” (N.B. wrath from orge: violent anger)

2:19 “…even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?”

3:13 “At the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ WITH ALL HIS SAINTS.”

5:23 “…at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Hey hang on, you’re telling me that Jesus Christ is expected to come back FOR His saints - and WITH all of his saints - even the dead ones??...WHOA!! that’s real confusing!...and what about this ‘wrath’ business?

You will see for yourself, the focus of this letter is Jesus Christ coming to personally call ALL His saints (believers) to Himself – that’s in view of coming to Earth again WITH ALL His saints.

Hang in there my friend, it will all become crystal clear eventually.

As for ‘wrath’, I do hope you’re going to miss actually seeing that, but let’s visit it later.

NEXT TIME: WOW!!     
Click on: http://hotspuds.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/wow.html                                                                            

WHAT'S THIS RAPTURE BUSINESS?

A raptor poised to rapture

 

Hey, what's with this 'Rapture' business? Why is it such a hot topic?

Many Christians have never heard about the Rapture because they don't study their Bibles and mostly it's not taught from the pulpit. Many are just not interested or even scoff at the idea. At least one world-wide sect attacks the idea of an imminent event. For others like me, it is our day-to-day hope to exit this scene instantly to be with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ - for ever!

Well that sounds more sci-fi than Star Wars to me. I couldn't find any 'rapture' in my mum's Bible then Dad said: "Don't bother looking, it's not even there."

He's right - you won't find the word 'rapture' in a contemporary Bible, not even the Authorised King James Version published in 1611.

So where does it come from? 

You have to go back to the Vulgate Bible published by Saint Jerome in 405 AD and used for 1000 years until English translations were available. The Vulgate was meant for the vulgus or common people (you and I!) - if we knew Latin.

Okay, where is 'rapture' in the Vulgate?

In the New Testament you will find the apostle Paul's 1st letter to the Thessalonians; chapter 4 verse 17 reads:                                                         

"deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus"

'Rapiemur' translates from the Greek αρπαγησομεθα (harpazo) meaning 'to seize' or 'catch away' (in our lingo, snatch or grab) and comes from the same root as the English word...........'rapture'. Harpazo is commonly translated as 'caught up'.

In other words: harpazo = rapiemur = caught up = raptured!

It's as simple as that.

Next: 'Our only hope!'
                Why did Paul write this letter to Thessalonians?
 

Click on: http://hotspuds.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/our-only-hope.html

Photo credit: xamobox.blogspot

Born to die

Following ‘the grandkids finding a scorpion’…

Hey Grandad, you promised us a campfire story about the stars.

So I did.  Okay, we saw some constellations last night but the Bible doesn't tell us what they're supposed to look like or what they mean. The best we can do is see if the story in the Bible matches up with what we know as constellations today.        
Tell me - what was the name of the first woman?

Eve. She listened to the serpent and ate the fruit that God told her not to.

Yes, Eve was the mother of everybody and God promised that one of her family would deal with that naughty serpent just like when someone stomps on a snake to kill it but gets bitten. Many years later the people in Israel were told that this special son, who would be really God come to live with us, would be born by a virgin - that's a girl who ….

Yes, I know… it’s a girl who hasn't had sex yet.  The baby couldn’t be more special than that!  Mary was the virgin wasn't she?

Yes, Mary is even called the 'virgo' in the very old Latin bibles.

Really??  So why does Virgo in the sky hold some wheat and a palm branch.

The Branch was a special Jewish name for the coming Saviour that meant He will be a Man…and God…and King, but first He will come peacefully to serve others – that’s why we have four different gospel accounts to tell us about Jesus. Then when He was here He spoke of Himself as being like a grain of wheat producing a lot of fruit by dying in the ground.  

I get it – He’s the Son of God who came here to die.                                                     

So what are the scales for?...weighing something?

Libra was the name for the Roman pound weight. We needed a Redeemer who could buy us lost sinners back but a fair price had to be paid to meet God's demands. Money like silver and gold wasn't good enough - it had to be paid in blood – not from animals but the precious blood of Jesus.

Libra was hard to see but Scorpio was easy with its big long tail and I could pick out the arrow from Sagi....whatever his name is, aimed at the scorpion.

Yes, Scorpio kind of steals the show so far. He gets in his poisonous bite and it looks like he might get away with it.

...except for that arrow aimed at him by the archer!

Do you remember what the Egyptian king ordered for the little Hebrew boys?

Yeah! Throw them into the river with the crocodiles!

And do you remember what happened to the little boys near Bethlehem after Jesus was born?

Herod the king told his soldiers to kill them all.

So when Jesus had finally let Himself be caught and nailed up on a cross to die...

...it looked like the baddies had won! 
Grandad, did Jesus know what was going to happen to Him in the end?                                       

Yes, Jesus knew only too well that the prophets in the Old Testament were talking about Him and how He would die. Moses and Elijah even showed up to talk to Him about it!

Yeah??  Imagine waking up every morning knowing you’re one day closer – no I can’t! - it’s too horrible to even imagine….like being on death row all your life!          

Grandad, I think this first star show tells us that Mary’s special Son came here to pay our penalty with His blood by dying for us.                                       

Yes and when we look at the next four constellations we’re going to find out who really won.                                                                     
In October I’ll show you: Capricornus, Aquarius, Pisces and Aries.

The full campfire chat can be found on Discoveryiopna.blogspot.com

 

Image credit: maristmessenger.co.nz

UNFINISHED BUSINESS

IOPNA takes one last look - south of Leo, the 12^th and final constellation of the ‘Mazzaroth’ (Zodiac):

The Lion of the Tribe of Judah is identified as the King of kings so I guess that’s it for now – the end of the show.

Not quite. There’s still some unfinished business to attend to…a bit of unpleasant housekeeping…                                                            
How did all the trouble begin, back in the Garden of Eden?

I guess it was with the serpent sneakily questioning Eve about God’s generosity.


Align top to north

Here is Hydra, apparently referred to by Job as ‘the crooked serpent’ (26:13). He is the largest constellation in the night-sky taking up more than 100 degrees, all the way from Pollux in Gemini to Spica in Virgo.  The only prominent star is Alphard, ‘the solitary one’ from Arabic al-fard.

So who could this serpent represent really?

‘The serpent’ is finally identified in Revelation 12 being thrown out of heaven half-way through the coming Tribulation period:

“…the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceived the whole world…”

Right, so the same serpent who deceived Eve, is the devil who tempted Jesus, is Satan…’transformed into an angel of light’…

…now reinvented as the dragon who attacks Israel, who inspires the revival of the Roman Empire with its leader in league with the antichrist and who instigates the battle of Armageddon.

So what happens to the serpent in the end?

After one last attempt at destroying the peace of Christ’s 1000 year reign:

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone…” Revelation 20:10

What’s with the raven or crow?

Gruesome reality!

That’s Corvus moving in to feast on the dead just as the birds of prey will be gathered to feast after the battle of Armageddon in Revelation 19.

And the cup?...does that connect with this?

That’s Crater the wine cup. Anybody who worships the Beast or accepts his mark will…

“drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation” (Revelation 14:10)

Who else has to experience this?

“Great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.”                              
Many believe that refers to the ecumenical ‘world church’ that is forming now.

Who else gets to taste this wrath of God?

Asaph the psalmist warned about 3000 years ago:

            “…in the hand of the Lord there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them…” Psalm 75

Whoa!...this is heavy stuff - all the wicked; it looks like God might be just a tad angry towards the end…still, there’s plenty of warning there.

Our God is unbelievably gracious: “…longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9

FINALLY: Around the campfire with the grandkids…on Discoveryiopna.blogspot.com

Acknowledgement: Stellarium

Photo credit: ShadOwer.tumblr.com