IOPNA's conversation with a skeptic about the Rapture continues…
Now, this ‘Wrath’ business - you haven’t explained why Paul told the Thessalonians about Jesus being the “deliverer from the coming wrath” (1:10) – that’s talking about hell isn’t it?
Look, this is going to be a bit heavy-going so we’ll keep it brief and perhaps come back to it another time in a study of the Revelation. To understand what’s around the corner we have to realize that God has not finished with the Jews – if we say He has, we make Him a liar who fails to keep His unconditional promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Hebrews 6:13-, Jeremiah 31:35-37 We also tend to forget that the Holy Bible is a Jewish book, written by Jews (Romans 3:2), about the Jewish Messiah (Luke 24:44), and often hijacked by Christians who pretend that everything applies to them just because there were some letters written to them.
When people claim that the Christian Church has replaced Israel they ignore Paul recognising three groups: Jews, Greeks (Gentiles) and the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32) and his teaching in Romans 9 thru 11; instead they claim the Church is ‘Spiritual Israel’ which is not even in the Bible, then twist Jewish prophecy to suit.
Ignoring what people say, events in history are the proof: the re-establishment of Israel, declared as a state on 14 May 1948, commenced a fulfilling of prophecy in our lifetime, seen in televised news!
Whatever we might say, the making of history has the last word!
Okay, fair enough but let’s not complicate things.
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| 34 kg hailstones?? (Revelation 16:21) |
I don’t know of anywhere in the Bible where it connects God’s wrath with hell. If we look at what will finally happen at God’s Great White Throne in Revelation 20:11-15 we notice there is no mention of wrath in casting the unsaved into the lake of fire.
Anybody who has carefully read the Old Testament Jewish prophecies will see that repeatedly there is the ‘Day of Jehovah’ or ‘Day of the Lord’ spoken of (starting with Isaiah 2:12), elements of which were only partially experienced by Israel in history - we haven’t seen the real deal yet.
To remove all doubt, Jesus said in Matthew 24:21-22 about that future period “…such as has not been since the beginning of the world, until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved…” In fact this 7 year tribulation on Earth has more prophecy devoted to it than any other period of time in all of history. It looks like it might be just around the corner but people don’t want to consider it literally because the horror is unimaginable. Despite what the Bible clearly says, they argue: how could a loving God allow such terror? How could there be such ‘wrath of the Lamb’ seen in Revelation 6?
So you’re saying that believers in Jesus Christ will not see the wrath of that tribulation?
Anybody who has carefully read the Old Testament Jewish prophecies will see that repeatedly there is the ‘Day of Jehovah’ or ‘Day of the Lord’ spoken of (starting with Isaiah 2:12), elements of which were only partially experienced by Israel in history - we haven’t seen the real deal yet.
To remove all doubt, Jesus said in Matthew 24:21-22 about that future period “…such as has not been since the beginning of the world, until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved…” In fact this 7 year tribulation on Earth has more prophecy devoted to it than any other period of time in all of history. It looks like it might be just around the corner but people don’t want to consider it literally because the horror is unimaginable. Despite what the Bible clearly says, they argue: how could a loving God allow such terror? How could there be such ‘wrath of the Lamb’ seen in Revelation 6?
So you’re saying that believers in Jesus Christ will not see the wrath of that tribulation?
Never mind me, the apostle Paul spelled it out it in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11, including:
“…for God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ….”, plus… “
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.” Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.” Romans 5:9
And not only Paul but Jesus Christ said it thru John in Revelation: "...I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." Revelation 3:10, after having said:
“Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:36
In fact, if you study this 7 year period of tribulation you will see from Daniel 9:24, 10:14, 12:1, Jeremiah 30:7, Matthew 24:21, and Mark 13:19 that the main focus will be Israel, although the whole habitable world will experience intense trial. Luke 21:20-26 Revelation 3:10 Romans 1:18 – 2:11 John 3:36
The long and the short of it is that Paul clearly spells it out, especially in Romans 2 and 1 Thessalonians 5, that God is going to put the screws on this world and today’s believers in the Lord Jesus Christ will not be here to see it.
But doesn’t it say somewhere: ‘He who endures to the end shall be saved’?
Yes that’s in Matthew 24 which we’ll have a look at next time. In the meantime, if you read the context of verse 13 you will see Jesus is talking about physically surviving deception, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, tribulation, execution, hatred, betrayal, lawlessness….; He continued: “And these glad tidings of the kingdom…” - we are not subjects of the King but will reign with the King. 2 Timothy 2:12 Revelation 5:10; 20:4; 22:5
What is a Christian saved by?
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
Survival is not the same as the gift of faith by grace.
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